Mysteries of Thomas the Tank Engine Discussion

Lord History wrote:The Twitter Gang and I had a delightful discussion tonight, and I should like to prompt one here. It mainly discusses these points -

1. How can a steam locomotive come to life?
2. What steam locomotive parts could be considered equivalent to human parts (Not all, mind you - crucial ones such as firebox/heart, smokebox/head, et cetera)?
3. Where would the mind/soul of an engine lie? In the face, or smokebox in general?
4. How can a steam engine be killed? Would it involve the aforementioned fire and smokeboxes/heart and head/brain?
5. To what extent could an engine be disassembled/have multiple parts replaced, put back together after a long period of time, and retain its memories/personalities?
6. During an overhaul, how long could an engine remain 'alive' without crucial parts?
7. Could a boiler explosion completely kill an engine?

Great points, I'd love to contribute. Firstly liked to say, it is cool that Thomas & Friends never really explicitly shows these in the RWS or TVS, so it enhances our imagination to come up with conclusions that suit the overall show of T&F.
Apologies if my response if long... LOL, so here we go:

Considering many events and storytelling of the book and series, it is pretty evident to conclude that the Island of Sodor is a 'realistic' imaginary island. Hence, everything has a proper realistic explanation, and not just magically acquiring a face etc. Major References (Gordon and the Famous Engine - Duck says, 'he went 100 miles before YOU were thought of' clearly stating, not just the engine being Gordon, but him overall, including face etc., plus many many more... Thomas, Percy and old show Coach, 'she'll be broken up when we find the time', HER as a whole machine, so face does't just disappear at times of scrapping. Many scrap engine etc. models are there too........ON and ON hahaha ) IMO, many engines and vehicles etc. are designed specifically with a face and overall character basis, and Sodor is home to all these specially manufactured talking vehicles. Understanding that during the 90's, technology isn't AS advanced (obviously technological capabilities can be stretched because it is imagination overall - but realistic imagination meaning IMO, it could definitely have happened someway), so I'm sure they could have built faces etc. (plus you have to remember that through imagination T&F was created) Specially advanced engineers and scientist on Sodor and around the world, create these awesome engines and that's how talking engines are manufactured, faces and all.

1. Because of them being built from scratch, they have wiring and connections different to normal transports that are turned on, once this mechanism is switched on, the engine 'comes to life'... not magically or unrealistically but through superb technological design.
2. Not possible to compare to real human parts, it is a machine overall. So it still has internal technological drivers etc.
3. Probably the 'mind' would be in the face area and part of the smokebox - the rest of the engine still needs to operate like a steam locomotive.
4. They are overall a machine again, so extreme fires or severe crashes they can be crushed etc. It would just like another machine, obviously T&F are extremely amazingly designed with top quality haha.
5. Turn the face / 'life' mechanism off (if they want) and engine can be dismantled completely, remembering it's just another machine.
6. Face region would be separate to the 'real' engine after all, so it wouldn't entirely affect the train, just loose connections to the 'body' in general. Still can talk etc, until the face is switched off.
7. Definitely can, just like a normal machine.

Sorry again for the long response, but I like giving my opinions, again, I'm speaking at a realistic approach taking on board pretty much all the stories of the series and books, obviously they wouldn't show small kids the whole building and dismantling process but this is my assumptions and I stand by them according to the actual realism of the show.

Great discussion topics

luctheminecrafter wrote:No, those are just generic lorries: there can't be only 3 kinds of a truck. It's like saying there are only 7 Class 08 diesels.

Good point, that didn't phase me haha. Probably just scapped entirely. Faces removed and broken up, due to their behaviour and accidents lol

It's alright, sometimes I don't ponder things enough when I post.

To Lord History, here's for #2: TENSION RELIEF BY TRAINMASTER64!

Does anyone have an explanation for this?

Henry was rebuilt around 1935 into the Black 5 shape. However, the first Black 5 wasn't even built until the 50s. Did the original date (also in the 50s) satisfy
the event better or not. What are your thoughts?

Where did you hear that?

If it's from the Sodor History books, I have to say they weren't very reliable. They didn't do very good research when they were writing them.

luctheminecrafter wrote:Where did you hear that?

If it's from the Sodor History books, I have to say they weren't very reliable. They didn't do very good research when they were writing them.

I apologize. I was thinking of Percy's arrival date. Please bear with me! However, what I was trying to say was that someone a while a go stated that Henry's crash and rebuilt could've happened around the time Sodor was nationalized and Percy was made station pilot at Tidmouth (IOS Date) which could explain his process of becoming a Black 5 in the 50s. It was just a suggestion by someone else who probalby knew the history already. Again, I apologize because I think that I kind've worded this wrong, but hopefully you would understand what I am trying to say!

Yeah, I'd rather stick with my own senses. But even so, Awdry wasn't very reliable when writing the books, especially when it came to Henry.

Here's one I've only just thought about after all those years:

Are there any characters with other eye colours? Or are they all black?

It looks to be that they are all black. Why? I don't know. It could have something to do with ethnicity, or they could all be manufactured that way. Then again, if the eyes were manufactured, Whiff wouldn't need glasses, because they could just replace his eyes. Unless that size is no longer made...

Doc Knickerbocker wrote:I think we should start off with -
How did the engines get faces? (And by extension, sentience.)

This was the very first 'mystery' in this thread, and I'd like to bring it up again. I recently watched Shed 17, which is arguably the most controversial Thomas fanvid ever. (Or one of, at least.) I myself did not find it too frightening, but there have been many others that have.

Now, Shed 17 delved into uncharted territory by coming up with a dark and morbid idea of how the engines became sentient: (spoiler tags for those who haven't seen it or don't want to)

Spoiler:

Anyone else find this interesting?

I'm reminded of another fanfiction from SiF that had a similar idea. Apparently, they were the souls of dead people, who were implanted into the locomotive bodies. There are quite a few interesting ideas about this question... thoughts?

I loved Shed 17 - a fine piece of work, really, and one of the best fan works period.

Though, I find the 'Soul' theory a better fit, however, as in the Shed 17 universe, it seems that the people are made of nothing but wood, lead, and plastic. From where, then, would the organs to be implanted into the vehicles come?

Doc Knickerbocker wrote:I loved Shed 17 - a fine piece of work, really, and one of the best fan works period.

Though, I find the 'Soul' theory a better fit, however, as in the Shed 17 universe, it seems that the people are made of nothing but wood, lead, and plastic. From where, then, would the organs to be implanted into the vehicles come?

I agree; I loved it and will probably watch it again sometime!

I also agree that it doesn't make too much sense, and I myself do not agree with it. The engines bleed – the people just explode sawdust.

That's why I ask - the people don't seem to have organs.

Although that's the reason it's strange in the movie, I do think it makes a *little* sense IF the people weren't made of wood.

Nonetheless, it is still a fine work.

So, I recently purchased the ERTL Culdee, Godred, and Lord Harry models. While opening them, I wondered - how do their faces operate? Is each face sentient, or does each face have a different personality (I.E. Culdee I - the front one - is wise and cautious, while Culdee II - the back one - is a joker and a storyteller)?

My idea is that both have the same characteristics, same voice, etc. Either one can talk whenever they choose however, so the front won't be talking at the same time as the back. The big difference of course is that one looks back and one looks forwards – in my opinion they are connected, so they can see it at the same time and it registers at the same time – I guess sort of like the compound eyes of an insect.

The Real Lives of Thomas the Tank Engine refers to the back face as a "descent face". Presumably, the steeper grades and higher risks necessitate it as a security measure. I agree with D11- they can only use one at a time, but it's the same soul operating both. Great question!

Toz76 wrote:It looks to be that they are all black. Why? I don't know. It could have something to do with ethnicity, or they could all be manufactured that way. Then again, if the eyes were manufactured, Whiff wouldn't need glasses, because they could just replace his eyes. Unless that size is no longer made...

Well, the same question could be applied to they're faces. Are they all gray?

In the TVS, yes, but in the RWS, it's a crapshoot. Gray, green, black, yellow, orange... I assume to fit the existing livery of the engine.

On a darker note:

So, this is a world where sentient vehicles are built, enslaved, brainwashed, and ultimately killed by humans (if you want to be cynical about it). Where are the engine rights groups? Where's People for Ethical Treatment of Vehicles? In fact, let's discuss the implications of a world where many vehicles are alive. The implications are frightening, aren't they?

Toz76 wrote:So, this is a world where sentient vehicles are built, enslaved, brainwashed, and ultimately killed by humans (if you want to be cynical about it). Where are the engine rights groups? Where's People for Ethical Treatment of Vehicles? In fact, let's discuss the implications of a world where many vehicles are alive. The implications are frightening, aren't they?

* insert horrible laugh onomatopoeia here *.

If so, then we should have an engine named Martin Luther King Jr. and have him make an engine civil rights movement.

luctheminecrafter wrote:If so, then we should have an engine named Martin Luther King Jr. and have him make an engine civil rights movement.

Toz76 wrote:In the TVS, yes, but in the RWS, it's a crapshoot. Gray, green, black, yellow, orange... I assume to fit the existing livery of the engine.

On a darker note:

So, this is a world where sentient vehicles are built, enslaved, brainwashed, and ultimately killed by humans (if you want to be cynical about it). Where are the engine rights groups? Where's People for Ethical Treatment of Vehicles? In fact, let's discuss the implications of a world where many vehicles are alive. The implications are frightening, aren't they?

I don't think it's as extreme as you're making it out to be, but one wonders about Bertie's views upon demolition derbies...

_


What if TTTE was just a child dreaming about trains, with family and friends being the vehicles?

The series would've ended when the child was awakened from their coma.